|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 4 post(s) |
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
429
   |
Posted - 2015.01.27 17:57:59 -
[1] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:So why is it not considered an exploit considering you are avoiding the entire consequence of having the criminal timer. The consequences of having a GCC are that you explode at the hands of Concord when you board a ship or undock in one, which is exactly what happens when you use this tactic.
Quote:The criminal timer is supposed to mean that you are prevented from operating while under it, which is why you can't warp with it running. If the purpose of the GCC timer was to completely shut you down, then you wouldn't be able to board a ship while under a GCC timer.
Quote:Using an orca to reship on grid avoids this and means that for each gank run you do you are gaining only a criminal timer of a few minutes as your existing timer is refreshed. Your point is what exactly?
Quote:What this also means is that almost any ship or structure in the game can now be solo ganked. This has always been the case, using an Orca to reship during a POS bash is an old trick. If you don't want your ship or structure to be solo ganked then you take steps to protect it.
Quote:Considering one of the driving factors for the removal of input broadcasting was preventing people from being able to solo gank large ships and structures with ease, this seems like the exact opposite. Citation needed.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
429
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 18:16:17 -
[2] - Quote
Erufen Rito wrote:It stands to reason then, to have CONCORD preloaded on grid while mining as a legitimate tactic right? I mean the attacking ship does get killed, as expected, and concord remains on grid, as desired. I paid the price of having concord on my selected grid, and thus I'm not abusing game mechanics. Right? Correct
quote=GM Lelouch]We do not consider intentionally spawning CONCORD using disposable ships an exploit at this time[/quote]Source
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
430
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 18:22:28 -
[3] - Quote
Erufen Rito wrote:It was actually deemed an exploit quite while ago. I'd be happy to show you the source, but I don't have the time for it right now. Im sure someone else knows where it is. But trust me, it was an exploit at some point. It was ruled upon in July last year, the ruling is linked in my previous post.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
434
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 19:09:28 -
[4] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:If we want the policy changed, all we have to do is hyperdunk Chribba in his Veldnaught... CCP would reverse position on this faster than Concord could respond.  Going by past occurrences of him being killed Chribba would probably say "GF" in local, and that would be the end of it as far as he's concerned.
afkalt wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Fit a tank I don't believe you know how this works. In the slightest. Or did you find a way to ninja an ACTIVE tank onto a freighter? Try quoting the whole post next time so as to not look like a fool, it was an answer to a question that specifically referred to mining, as such it has precisely nothing to do with freighters.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
436
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 19:25:37 -
[5] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:But that's not the only consequence. You are unable to warp for a reason. Why even bother having that restriction if it can just be bypassed? The reason that you are unable to warp is clear, it's so that you can't use the same ship to gank multiple targets before Concord makes your ship explode. The restriction isn't being bypassed, hyperdunking doesn't allow you to gank multiple targets before Concord makes your ship explode.
Quote:And you shouldn't be able to. Clearly it is supposed to shut you down. Even the OP call it "unintended". If CCP intended that you shouldn't be able to board a ship while under GCC they would have coded it that way. What the GCC does is shut down your ability to warp and every ship that you do board or undock in explodes at the hand of Concord.
Quote:That you're supposed to get a 15 minute timer for a gank. Instead you get a 2 minute timer if you gank 2 minutes after your first one. Lets not forget that this is a single gank, it's not multiple ganks and if anything people who hyperdunk are actually extending the GCC timer beyond that which is necessary when ganking with multiple pilots
Quote:I don't disagree, but then the gankers should also have to put some bloody effort in. This means they can just chuck as many 2m isk catalysts at a target as they need. Where are you getting this 2M Catalyst fit from, most gankers use T2 fit Catalysts which cost 4X that. As for effort, the gankers are putting a damn sight more effort into their gameplay than their hapless targets that choose to fly billions of ISK through known ganking hotspots
Quote:To be honest it's pointless arguing with someone like you because you're not interested in what's fair and balanced gameplay. Au contraire, I'm all about balanced gameplay; it's people like you who seek to make it unbalanced in favour of those who fail to use the existing mechanics to protect their stuff from others that would like to relieve them of it.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
436
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 19:34:15 -
[6] - Quote
afkalt wrote:Tell me again how a buffer can help this.
Or do you fit barges with active tanks? >snicker< Buffer tanking a barge works fine thanks. Even a lowly Retriever mining in a 0.5 can be fitted in a way that will thwart the efforts of a solo ganker in a T2 fitted Catalyst; if a ganker wants to kill one that's been fitted properly, it's going to cost them 2 Catalysts, at least one of which has to be T2 fitted.
That makes it an undesirable target, especially when there's plenty of miners out there who think a small shield booster is an effective tank.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
439
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 19:48:34 -
[7] - Quote
Jenn aSide wrote:This is exactly what is wrong with a lot of the community that makes suggestions about 'balance'. I'm sorry, but Emotion (such as hate and jealousy of a freaking imaginary in game terrorist group) is no reason to alter a video game's mechancs in favor of people who can't won't lift a single finger in their own defense. FTFY Jenn, there's no can't about it, they simply won't, because they can't be arsed and want CCP to do it for them.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
441
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 20:01:50 -
[8] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:You're a troll, you've always been a troll and you'll always be a troll. Have you just looked in a mirror, because you just described yourself perfectly?
Quote:You only care about making the game as tilted towards your playstyle regardless of the effect on other players. You do realise that Tippia is about as far from being a ganker as you can get without being a carebear? His/her playstyle is one that is affected by things like ganking.
Quote:This announcement makes tanking irrelevant and means almost any ship can be solo ganked. No it doesn't make tanking irrelevant, especially if you choose to not load your freighter to the gunnels with isk, as for the rest of your statement, so what? A hyperdunker is still using the same amount of resources as a gank fleet, just in a different way.
Quote:If you can't see why that's unbalanced then you never will, it's as simple as that. You're talking about yourself again, are you sure you're not Veers?
Quote:I'm really not interested in debating with people like you, so any further response from yourself will be ignored as a troll post. You're not interesting in anything that challenges the way you view Eve, no change there. Speaking of trolls, maybe you should stop posting....
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
443
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 20:07:47 -
[9] - Quote
Mr Omniblivion wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Lucas Kell wrote:You're a troll, you've always been a troll and you'll always be a troll. Have you just looked in a mirror, because you just described yourself perfectly? Wow, no wonder CCP doesn't actually read through past the first two pages. Hah, I'm not sure if that's a condemnation of my posting, or Lucas's
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
443
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 20:22:28 -
[10] - Quote
TheMeanPerson wrote:The real tragedy here is the billions of isk I gank every day from tier 1 industrials not knowing how to put a buffer tank on their haulers. This is what needs to be addressed, haulers need super buff ungankable, because ganking is bad and wrong.  This is why we need a sarcasm tag 
Some people might take it seriously 
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
|
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
444
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 21:36:58 -
[11] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:It's incredibly cheap compared to what you can get out of it. A Solo miner ganker can happily gank at a profit from a very young character. That depends entirely on their victims, profitable miner ganking normally requires that the miner is probably afk and using a barge that's un/fail tanked. It's completely possible to tank barges to the extent that they can shrug off the attentions of a very young character in a Catalyst who solo ganks, it's even possible to tank them hard enough to shrug off a solo attack by someone in a T2 fitted Catalyst.
One of the keys to not getting ganked is being harder to gank than the people who can't be bothered to take precautions, 99% of the time gankers will go after the untanked and fail fits before they'll go after someone who has actually fitted their ship properly.
Quote:Killing a freighter is always killboard green, which used to be constrained by fleet size requirements but now will not. Do you mean the amount of pilots you can bring to the party, or the amount of ships required to do the job?
Quote:The repercussions for ganking are shockingly underwhelming. Bounties are irrelevant as the ships they fly are so cheap. Shooting a ganker is pointelss because both his ship and his pod are usually expendable (even more so now that there's no clone grades). Kill rights are insanely pointelss as gankers can usually be shot anyway, and as previously stated shooting them is pointelss. Sec status and is also irrelevant as you can happily fly everywhere in a pod almost unstoppable as there's no bubbles in highsec and insta-docks/insta-undocks exist. Even if you do want your sec status back it costs less than 400m to go from -10 to 0, not that you'll ever need to as a ganker is more often than not an alt and so isn;t needed for anythign other than ganking. The repercussions for ganking are underwhelming because most people can't be bothered to do anything about it, if people want to see more repercussions for ganking then it is up to them to provide those repercussions. People who complain about the lack of repercussions need look no further than themselves for the solution to their complaints.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
444
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 22:11:36 -
[12] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:I'm sure it's possible, that doesn't mean it happens. I've not yet seen many gankers unable to profitably gank with a very young character. You can turn the blame to the victims, but it doesn't change that it's very easy to gank for profit. It's only profitable if the victim makes it so, they choose to fly untanked or failfit ships. They make the choice, it's only right that they should have to live with it.
If gankers take advantage of people who choose to fit their ships inappropriately or take precautions to protect their stuff in a game that's known for allowing people to take advantage of things like that, who is to blame?
Quote:I mean exactly what it says, killboard. Many gankers kill to boss their killboards as well as just gaining profit. All freighters are worth more than the ships it takes to gank them, even empty, so on the killboard they will result in more in kills than in losses (killboard green). What used to be the argument for this, and rightly so, is that getting the number of players together was difficult to do this, so you either had a massive fleet of lots of people in catalysts, or a handful of people in things considerably more expensive but with a higher damage output, like the Talos. What this announcement means is that it's now officially fine to use this method, which means that even using catalysts you only need 1 pilot. More pilots will get the job done faster, but you no longer need to move up to a Talos. 1 pilot running all of the catalysts, 4 pilots running a quarter of them each, it doesn't really matter. If killboards didn't exist nothing would change, gankers would gank, and victims would still choose to be victims.
Quote:But what repercussions can they realistically provide? It's a disposable character in disposable ships that will generally get to a gank target before you can get to them. Insta-docks/undocks and travelling in a pod make it near impossible to catch them. Ask Bronson Hughes, he's done quite well out off popping gankers, as for disposable alts, that doesn't happen mainly because it's a bannable offence.
Quote:There's a reason most CODE players troll anti-gankers about wasting their time, it's because they are in fact wasting their time. Even if you manage to catch and kill one, the loss is irrelevant because the ship was disposable. Ever heard of propaganda? CODE.'s "they're wasting their time" is exactly that, it's to discourage people.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
445
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 22:16:47 -
[13] - Quote
Herpp Derpp wrote:Roche Pso wrote:
All you need to do to stop hyperdunking is bring a friend who can jam the dps ships. The pilot is fair game for anyone to use any offensive mods on, so just jam them and they can't damage the target.
This, or the myriad of other ways to avoid the very fragile method of hyperdunking. EVE rewards ingenuity and preparation, and often punishes laziness. ECM the ganker, or logi your freighter until he runs out of catalysts, or don't autopilot, or web your freighter, or don't fly through lower highsec, or warp away to a celestial, or... Those victims of this skillfully prepared method of death-dealing are can brainstorm ways to not die, just as the ganker brainstormed a way kill. But that requires effort, and actually having to think about how they play the game.....
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
445
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 22:50:36 -
[14] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Again, that's victim blame. The fact is that on average miners are profitable to gank. If they weren't you'd find another target to gank. Because they choose to be. The pertinent word is choose, they have a choice. I choose to tank my barges, they choose not to. They are to blame for the choices they make.
Quote:If no target were, you'd ask for changes to make them profitable. It still doesn't change the fact that it's easy to gank very profitably. Whether or not you want to blame the miners of the mechanics is irrelevant. Gankers aren't the ones constantly screaming for change, they're the ones that keep adapting to it. As for the profitability of ganking, if there were no profitable targets, that would mean that CCP had removed the possibility of people making foolish choices; not a good thing for CCP, or people that enjoy Eve.
Quote:I honestly don;t believe that with so many gankers in it primarily for showing their killboards off. Fact is that the ships it takes to take down a freighter are shockingly cheap in comparison with the freighter. I know that value doesn't affect how much it should take to drop the ship, but it should have at least a little bit of an impact on it. That's like complaining that a $500 RPG round or a $300 IED can take out an armoured vehicle costing upwards of $100,000.
Even in the real world "cash-tanking" doesn't work.
[quoteIt may be considered propaganda, but it doesn't make it any less true. It is a waste of time to try to fight a ganker, and there really is nothing you can do to a ganker to affect them. They're just like any other throwaway alt in that way.[/quote]Looks like the propaganda is working as intended tbh, it's certainly made a believer out of you.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
447
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 23:18:49 -
[15] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Because they choose to be. The pertinent word is choose, they have a choice. I choose to tank my barges, they choose not to. They are to blame* responsible for the choices they make. *Slams head on desk* I give up. You're not going to understand that whether it's by choice or not is irrelevant, the end result is the same. If CCP were able to patch players, I'd ask them to patch miners to make them play more effectively to avoid being ganked. As they can't, the only way to alter the balance is to steer the game though mechanics. If you don't get it that time, you never will, so I'm done with repeating myself. So let me get this straight, you don't feel that people should take responsibility for the choices they make?
*post was changed prior to your quote, edited your quote to reflect that
Quote:Uhhh, except they do ask for changes. Some even scream. The only reason fewer do so now is because it's so much in the gankers favour it's hard to find more to ask for. I won't even bother asking you to prove this, you'll just evade the question. BTW the past 5 years of mechanics changes contradicts your claim of the balance being in the gankers favour, they've received far more nerfs than they have buffs, the inverse is true of "carebears".
Quote:Indeed, and games could be just as unbalanced as real life but generally people find it more fun when players are given a relatively level playing field. It is a fairly level playing field if you choose to take advantage of all of the tools you're given to use.
Gankers use every tool at their disposal because they have to, most of their victims don't because they're complacent, lazy or uninformed.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
448
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 23:27:42 -
[16] - Quote
Hippinse wrote:What is so wrong about personal responsibility? Lucas appears to feel that taking responsibility for the choices you make is wrong, I call it acting like an adult.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
449
|
Posted - 2015.01.27 23:55:41 -
[17] - Quote
Lucas Kell wrote:No, I think players should be responsible for their choices Evidently not, you called it victim blaming in this very thread, so which one of the following is true:
If I make bad choices about how I fit my ships and play the game, it is my responsibility when somebody else takes advantage of the choices I made?
If I make bad choices about how I fit my ships and play the game, it's the fault of the game mechanics when somebody else takes advantage of the choices I made?
Quote: I just don't think that things should be left easy and cheap for the people preying on the terrible players purely because those players are terrible. So if I'm a terrible FPS player then better players shouldn't shoot me in the face because I'm easy meat?
Quote:A young character ganking can be very profitable even with a relatively low level of skill. Only if their targets make terrible choices. There's that responsibility thing again
Quote:Well for starters you can listen to Sabriz talking about his campaign. A lot of that is geared towards either punishing people for not putting themselves in the line of fire from gankers or rewarding them for putting themselves in the line of fire from gankers even though they lack the skill to go up against veteran players ganking. It's called politics, it's full of rhetoric and propaganda designed to stir up the masses, as with most political campaigns it's 99% bullshit and hot air.
Quote:And yes, I've heard the whole "ganking got super nerfed!" multiple times before, but I've ganked before and I've ganked recently and it's considerably easier to do now. Perhaps that's purely because the science behind it has been tried and tested so much more now that everything is refined down to perfection so even in the face of negative changes it's excelled, but again the result is the same. By your own admission, in this very thread, you never undock in hisec, so pray tell how do you know what hisec ganking currently involves?
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
451
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 00:25:12 -
[18] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote:This seems wrong...another gamey tactic just like bumping, and CONCORD failing to act as a law enforcement agency would. Both tactics have been deemed to be legitimate actions, the fact that you don't like their decision is irrelevant in the face of the reality that they are quite literally the masters of this particular universe.
Go and find another windmill to tilt at, preferably in some other game.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
453
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 00:35:29 -
[19] - Quote
Commentus Nolen wrote:If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?
Do I get a kill mail for destroying them? As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, however if you can fly them you can certainly steal them 
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
455
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 00:57:48 -
[20] - Quote
Paranoid Loyd wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Commentus Nolen wrote:If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?
Do I get a kill mail for destroying them? As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them . You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them. The cats also need to be dropped close to the target for hyperdunking to work, simply bumping the ship out of blaster range would have also stopped this. Shock, Horror.
Basic knowledge of game mechanics can effectively disrupt a hyperdunk. Who'd have thunk it?
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
|
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
470
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 12:27:50 -
[21] - Quote
Aralyn Cormallen wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Commentus Nolen wrote:If I find the stash of ships the hyperdunker has stashed and they are unpiloted can i destroy them without Concord intervention?
Do I get a kill mail for destroying them? As far as I know Concord will intervene if you shoot at them, but if you can fly them you can certainly board them and steal them . You can also target them to prevent the hyperdunker from boarding them, however if their "drop ship" is still around the pilot can do the same to prevent you from boarding and stealing them. Hilariously, you could also board one, shoot another to get yourself concorded, and then keep jumping in the other ships while under the GCC to get Concord to clean the lot up :P Nice, that hadn't even occurred to me.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
475
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 20:52:03 -
[22] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote: even went as far as to say 50mil in cats... I didn't say it was suddenly 40mil in cats now, or 10mil in cats. Where are you getting this 50M figure from? Because you sure as hell aren't ganking a triple bulkheaded freighter with 5 T2 fitted Catalysts or 25 T1 fitted Catalysts for that matter.
Quote:And a T2 fit Cat costs 4x as much as a T1... but only does 20% more damage. So it doesn't take an economics major to figure out the Maths here. You need to recheck your maths, with a maxed skilled pilot a T1 fitted Cat costing 2M does just under 420DPS without implants and a T2 fitted Cat costing 8M does 680DPS+ without implants; that's considerably more than a 20% increase in damage.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
478
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 21:07:54 -
[23] - Quote
Zendon Taredi wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Market McSelling Alt wrote: even went as far as to say 50mil in cats... I didn't say it was suddenly 40mil in cats now, or 10mil in cats. Where are you getting this 50M figure from? Because you sure as hell aren't ganking a freighter with 5 T2 fitted Catalysts or 25 T1 fitted Catalysts for that matter, regardless of the technique that's being used to gank. Quote:And a T2 fit Cat costs 4x as much as a T1... but only does 20% more damage. So it doesn't take an economics major to figure out the Maths here. You need to recheck your maths, with a maxed skilled pilot a T1 fitted Cat costing 2M does just under 420DPS without implants and a T2 fitted Cat costing 8M does 680DPS+ without implants; that's considerably more than a 20% increase in damage. 680 dps from a 8m ship is hysterical. Should be nerfed to 300ish. Those figures are for overheated guns and refer to specialised fits that have zero utility beyond pumping out a shitton of DPS and are being flown by a max skilled pilot, also bear in mind the design parameters of destroyers, which is that of cheap DPS platforms; the clue is in the name of the ship class.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
479
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 21:26:21 -
[24] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:No... named T1 fit is 423 dps with CN anti... unheated.
Yes you are right, 20% was an exaggeration, but you still aren't getting 4x the damage from the fit that is 4x more expensive. 423 dps from a 2mil ship...
Using meta 4 guns bumps the price to between 3.7M and 10M, the only meta 3 gun that gets close to your figure bumps the price up to 3.7M, seeing as we're talking about a 2M isk fit would you care to try again?
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
481
|
Posted - 2015.01.28 23:58:05 -
[25] - Quote
Unsuccessful At Everything wrote:Are we even talking about 'hyperdunking' anymore?
It seems the thread has de-evolved into 'Nerf gankers/Catalysts' thread # 2881773374 at this point....
Shhh, you're lowering the saline content.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
500
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 15:08:46 -
[26] - Quote
Mag's wrote:Can we please just think about the children?  Doesn't that get you locked up these days?
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
502
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 15:22:05 -
[27] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Mag's wrote:Can we please just think about the children? Doesn't that get you locked up these days? Dang, those gubbermint mind-reading nanobots came much sooner than anyone thought they would. I have some Dinsdale approved Millinery products for sale if you're interested, they're made from the finest quality aluminium foil and are available at multiple price points in several attractive styles 
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
512
|
Posted - 2015.01.29 19:39:05 -
[28] - Quote
Nail Zota wrote:very wrong? how?
I believed sure that jumping ship before concord intervention was a bannable offense. Is this true or not? that's all I want to know. Your entire premise is wrong, people who hyperdunk don't jump ship before Concord intervention, they let Concord destroy them before reshipping; this is how it works:
- They shoot at someone and gain a GCC flag.
- Concord roll up and destroy their ship
- They warp their pod to a safe spot where an alt or friend has dropped off some shuttles or newb ships
- They board a shuttle or newb ship
- Concord leave the scene of the original crime and roll up to destroy the ship they just boarded
- They warp their pod back to the scene of their original crime
- They board a new gank ship that has been dropped off, along with several other gank ships, by the same alt or friend that dropped off the shuttles
- Concord are still at the spot where the shuttles or newb ships are, giving a window of opportunity to carry out the next step
- They shoot at the target some more extending their GCC flag
- Concord roll up and destroy their gank ship
- Goto step 3 and repeat until their target is dead
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
523
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 21:05:33 -
[29] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:
True, but the consequence of negative sec status is barely worth mentioning.
If this were true the same could be said of AFKing while in space, the consequences of doing so are barely worth mentioning; primarily because there's not enough gankers to force a change in the way that they play, despite the best efforts of the gankers.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
524
|
Posted - 2015.01.30 21:34:47 -
[30] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:baltec1 wrote:They do get hunted. Oh boo hoo. Not really. If you feel that gankers aren't hunted enough then you should do something about it, all the tools are there, the thing that is missing is people willing to make the effort.
Quote:You cant even dock at a contested station of the opposing faction. Which makes sense, why would they give shelter to someone they're at war with?
Quote:Being a ganker should mean you live your life in low security space, and risk something to come to high security to do something bad. Why? I hesitate to make a real life comparison but there's plenty of known criminals walking the streets of major cities without consequence, quite a sizable proportion of them wear suits and hold positions of influence too.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
|
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
534
|
Posted - 2015.01.31 15:29:04 -
[31] - Quote
Hope Alar wrote:This isn't real world. Well you got that bit right.
Quote:It shouldn't be easy because then what is the point in flying a freighter? It shouldn't be easy to fly cargos worth billions of isk across a universe that has the occasional pirate looking to liberate that cargo, but for the most part it's so damn easy that you can do it without even being at the keyboard if you're that way inclined.
Quote:Why should we drag our friends 26 jumps or so just to do nothing. So that you don't fall victim to the above mentioned pirates who want to liberate your cargo.
Quote:They wouldn't, and I wouldnt ask them to do that. Why not?
Quote:It is boring enough for one person. So why do it?
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
537
|
Posted - 2015.02.01 01:17:31 -
[32] - Quote
Market McSelling Alt wrote:WTB Ganker that flies around with GCC in his fitted T2 ship...
You are smarter than that. Those ships are dropped at the time they are going to be used, you aren't going to get anything because the wreck you see will be Blue and from Concord. Why would Concord get involved?
Considering it takes very little to kill a T2 fitted gank ship, if more than one module drops you've more than paid for the ship you use to kill them.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
541
|
Posted - 2015.02.01 14:38:50 -
[33] - Quote
Tippia wrote:Ever heard of the Horn of Africa?
~snip~
With time, the haulers would get fed up with the slow and inefficient police and start hiring security contractors who'd do some law-breaking on their ownGǪ As above, so below.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
541
|
Posted - 2015.02.01 17:32:07 -
[34] - Quote
Shay Reve wrote: Can anyone honestly say that a player with one character/account without a huge wallet or a huge corp supporting him can engage in non stop suicide ganking of that scale? Using one character is unnecessarily restricting, whereas with one account, all 3 slots used for alts and some knowledge I'd say that it's a definite possibility; especially seeing as CODE. don't restrict their SRP to alliance members, if you kill in the name of James 315 then the odds are you can get at least some of your costs back if even if you use a non sanctioned ship or fit, although many find their operations self supporting.
Quote:Anonymity at its finest. And power stuggle is a b****h yeah. But in this case power struggle seems to be extremely outbalanced. Anonymity which is available to all, there's nothing stopping anybody using an alt to haul, an alt to trade, an alt to mission, an alt to scam or gank etc.
How is it out of balance?
Is the current level of freighter traffic not reaching its destination due to suicide ganking excessive?
What would you consider to be an acceptable loss level of freighter traffic not reaching its destination due to suicide ganking?
Quote:You need to be able to fund this or you will be left with a -10Sec character in a rookie ship and 1ISK. But guess what..Most if not all of the leet suicide gankers dont care beacuse "Hey its not my main anyway" See both of the above.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
541
|
Posted - 2015.02.01 17:53:20 -
[35] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote: It seems to me that if anything, hauling in freighters is obsolete/unnecessary. Personal freighter use certainly, 3rd parties like RedFrog and Push-X are a win-win if you set your collateral at the right level, it's a no brainer.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
542
|
Posted - 2015.02.01 19:10:03 -
[36] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Malcanis wrote:
Like AFK solo flying fat, slow, vulnerable haulers full of valuable goods along exactly the same route over and over again?
Because that doesn't happen (or will happen in the future with autonomous cars/trucks) in our everyday modern day context? In real life when a hauler gets hit on a regular basis they look into ways of not getting hit, here most of them whine on the forums.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
546
|
Posted - 2015.02.02 02:43:58 -
[37] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:I'm sorry but I just don't buy it. Given what I've seen a lot of gankers saying on these forums, I don't see how any change in their profitability is going to change their play style. I could see that if ganking required the use of battleships, but it would take a major shift of game mechanics to make that happen. Something like the reintroduction of ship insurance for suicide ganking? It didn't require the use of battleships but it certainly encouraged it as you invariably profited, it's removal was at least partly responsible for the current choice of ships used in suicide ganking.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
553
|
Posted - 2015.02.03 08:52:31 -
[38] - Quote
Veers Belvar wrote: highsec pve players are by and large nice, friendly You have evidence of this? Because there's far more evidence that the opposite is true.
Quote: and collaborative. Yep they're so collaborative they can't even work together to protect themselves, even after being told how to.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
562
|
Posted - 2015.02.04 12:48:59 -
[39] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: That being said, I don't think that if ganking were eliminated that it would in any way shape or form break or unbalance the game, ya know especially given how low the risk of getting ganked already is... A single shard PvP game/universe, which is what Eve is, where you could safely AFK traverse an area packed with shinies at zero risk or undock your barge, warp to an Ice anom, set lasers and walk away for 30+ minutes at zero risk is inherently broken.
I do mainly mining and industry.
Without the risk, albeit low because I actively mine and use a Procurer or semi disposable Retrievers, I wouldn't do it; I'd simply buy ore from the mindless drones who afk mine in Mackinaws.
I do local hauling, I'm based just off the Uedama pipe, I don't get ganked because I'm not worth ganking, my hauler is tanked and my loads are value limited.
As it is the risk of being suicide ganked outside of well known chokepoints, and some independents patrolling the belts in the name of James, is so low that for the most part you can get away with being AFK. Which is a sure sign that ganking is of no threat to the majority of Eve players.
With ganking eliminated everybody can safely AFK mine, everybody can just afk a freighter around, that's not good gameplay.
It also removes quite a chunk of gameplay from those amongst us that take active steps to make sure that gankers are more likely to gank someone else.
Anything that encourages AFK gameplay is to be discouraged as far as I'm concerned, and that includes the elimination of things like ganking.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
565
|
Posted - 2015.02.04 15:19:54 -
[40] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:As far as travel is concerned, shinnies exist to be used. So what if goods move 10 jumps to somewhere else 10 jumps away. That's not inherently game breaking. They are sitting in a station either way not being used. So the second someone puts them on a ship and uses them to PVP then they get risked. The second they leave the hangar they should be at risk, fitted or not.
Quote:The whole point of goods transport is to get things where you need them so they can be useful. Its not like junk sits in jita forever. The whole point of Eve is that other players make up a lot of the content, haulers aren't exempt from that.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
|
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
565
|
Posted - 2015.02.04 15:54:02 -
[41] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
That isn't the point of bumping. It surprises me that you don't know that, given that you've chosen to try and lecture about it.
I think you need to look up what the word lecture means. That being said, please enlighten me on why bumping is necessary to keep a target in place due to gate guns? It's not about keeping them in place, it's about getting them out of range of the gate guns, much like tugs directing a tanker or container ship, except for more nefarious purposes.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
582
|
Posted - 2015.02.07 17:00:34 -
[42] - Quote
baltec1 wrote:Valterra Craven wrote:Ned Thomas wrote:
I've also never gotten an answer to my other question: why should it be easier to be a miner/hauler/mission runner/etc. than it is to be a ganker?
Well I've give you that its def "easier" on the hauler, because as everyone has pointed out, the only "legit fit" is tank. So no thought there. Course this goes against the whole "choices matter" bs when it comes to fit. Blockade runners, agility fitted haulers, cov ops frigates, cloaky nullified tengu haulers and so forth. Then we have all the options for escorting. There is a huge number of options for haulers they most chose to ignore. Making a sensible choice is apparently too much effort for some
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
602
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 13:40:45 -
[43] - Quote
Kaarous Aldurald wrote:I never thought I'd say this, but I miss Dinsdale. At least he was actually inventive and fun to read, not a total bore shoveling doggerel at everyone. Dinsdale occasionally produced quality trolls and tinfoilhattery, the current crop of wannabes are trying to make up with quantity that which they lack in quality.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
602
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 15:29:41 -
[44] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Hiasa Kite wrote:
How is "They're in the same system as me. I deserve to kill them." any different from "I deserve 100% for no effort."?
I see what you are saying, but from my perspective the argument "They're in the same system as me. I deserve to kill them." is no different than what the gankers are saying in this thread! Hiasa Kite wrote:
Both arguments are at the opposite end of the spectrum and both arguments are ridiculous. They're both come from sets of players that simply feel entitled to success and feel that anyone that can out play them should be nerfed.
There should always be an opportunity to outplay someone. Hiasa Kite wrote:
I like a balanced game. That means people can squeeze by my attempts to kill them and it means others can kill me if I don't play for the utmost safety. Either way, my opponent outplays me and that is fine. In neither scenario is the game broken.
The problem comes in because a lot of these mechanics don't have counters. OR are you suggesting that a game with mechanics that have no counters is balanced? Because from where I sit, a mechanic that has no counter is the very definition of imbalance. Which mechanics would those be?
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
602
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 15:47:33 -
[45] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Which mechanics would those be? Well according to Kaarous, webbing a freighter has no counter, remember? I seem to remember people saying that it's difficult to counter but not impossible, which is why freighters that use the mechanic don't tend to die. They don't have to be faster than the predator, they just have to be faster than the rest of the prey.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
602
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 16:00:21 -
[46] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Well you remembered wrong. Which is funny because its not like I had to go all that far back in this thread to find the exact quotes where exactly the opposite of what you remembered was said. If you are going to mis-remember something, at least make sure that its so far back that its going to be extremely difficult for me to find. Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
Also because being ganked is 100% avoidable.
He's not wrong, it is 100% avoidable, as long as you take precautions and use the tools available to you. For instance: how to 100% avoid getting ganked in Uedama, don't fly through Uedama.
Quote:Kaarous Aldurald wrote:
First of all, if they actually want to gank both of my ships at once while they're on grid together, they have about a six second window to actually do it. After that, the freighter is in the air.
Secondly, it's a freaking Dramiel. I can kite a Catalyst for more than long enough for them to be destroyed by facpo. Hell I can kite ten of them for long enough. A Thrasher will have some trouble as well, since that thing has a sig radius only slightly higher than a drone, and can get some pretty insane speeds with a T2 afterburner.
So please, I would like you to try and explain your ridiculous statements. And hopefully, actually elaborate this perfect gank you keep talking about.
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=400977&p=57 post 1140 Nowhere in this post does he state that it's impossible to counter a webbing ship, he implies that it's extremely difficult, they do not mean the same thing.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
602
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 17:15:23 -
[47] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote: Also last I checked not all ganks are limited to Uedama. The same advice applies to any chokepoint between market hubs, to 100% avoid exploding there, you don't go there or you pay someone else to move your stuff through there.
Quote:Actually he implies it with this one line. "So please, I would like you to try and explain your ridiculous statements. And hopefully, actually elaborate this perfect gank you keep talking about." WatGäó? That implies nothing of the sort, he's asking for an explanation of something you posted earlier and an elaboration on what you call "a perfect gank".
Quote:Because the problem is that this entire statement is predicated on the fact that to have any meaning at all it has to mean that there is no effective counter to his setup. And if there is no effective counter to his setup, then guess what that means! An implication of perfection! You don't half talk some bollocks.
Quote:Appearances can be deceiving.
Evidently not.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
602
|
Posted - 2015.02.12 17:33:06 -
[48] - Quote
Valterra Craven wrote:Taking his posts out of context to be completely disingenuous is not a valid argument. Maybe you should stop doing it then.
Quote:Except reading comprehension means being able to understand context. His argument was that his tactics could not be countered. I said that there should be at least one scenario in which they could be. He referred to this as the perfect gank which he implied was not possible. You provided the source, I read it. The context is in other posts which you failed to link, see my comment above.
Oh and you're still wrong.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
652
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 15:59:20 -
[49] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote: ~ snip~ you don't like the story it tells which blows apart your carefully constructed narrative. The same could be said of you, you don't like others pointing out the flaws in your argument because it blows away your carefully constructed narrative.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
652
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 16:11:01 -
[50] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:Concord Guy's Cousin wrote:Dracvlad wrote: ~ snip~ you don't like the story it tells which blows apart your carefully constructed narrative. The same could be said of you, you don't like others pointing out the flaws in your argument because it blows away your carefully constructed narrative. And now we wheel out the alts who are too scared to post with their main... Seriously... is that the best you can up with? My main is currently unsubbed, as such I can't post with it on the forums.
Quote:RG9-7U -0.98 system, 5833 NPC ships killed in the last 24 hours, not a single ratter killed in 48 hours
Osmon 33863 NPC ships killed in the last 24 hours, 104 ships killed in the last 48 hours. Osmon is a major mission hub, RG9-7U is a backwater system, this makes your comparison flawed.
Someone brought up population density a few pages back, you're failing to take that into account. I'd put money on Osmon having a far higher population than RG9-7U.
Quote:Did you notice the part with 0 kills for player ships, might have slipped past the rose tinted glasses? Did you somehow miss that people in nullsec tend to dock up and stop shooting at NPCs when there are reds or neutrals in local? In highsec people just carry on regardless for the most part.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
|
|
Concord Guy's Cousin
State War Academy
Caldari State
652
|
Posted - 2015.02.22 16:15:09 -
[51] - Quote
Dracvlad wrote:
A -0.98 trusec system what hole did you crawl out of?
RG9-7U: Average pilots in space 2, number docked and currently active 8; yep it's a backwater
Numbers taken from the ingame map and stats.
ISD LackOfFaith ~ "Your Catalyst was a hamster, and your Retriever smelt of elderberries"
NPC Forum Alt, because reasons.
|
|
|
| |
|